-ReinForce Alert - worldwide discussion

[sertore]

I just get the point about subsim post: sorry for mislead information reported.

However I am continuing to think that the MK48 performance are strangely too high, as we are experiencing in Betasom multiplayers: as anticipated, we will play a dedicated test tomorrow evening and we will let you know about the results.

Thanks.

[goldorak]

@ sertore : One last thing about torpedoes :

Unless you are discussing wake homing torpedoes that are basically fire and forget, you only need care to fire them to intercept the wake of your target, there is no way for AI target ships to evade them; all other torpedoes, which means wire guided ones, such as the UGST and mk 48 when launched against human controlled units HAVE to be wireguided to the target.
You cannot expect to fire and forget and have the torpedo figure it all out.

Firing at close range, whether mk 48 or UGST the lethality is more or less the same.
At greater distances you cannot fire only in snapshot and expect to hit the target, moreso if the target is evading.
You need to steer these weapons onto the target.

The last mission Betasom played, had a player steering his mk 48 to hit the target.
The player that was hit was astounded to see the torped backtrace and hit him.
And he shouldn't be surprised.
The lethality of the UGST and Mk 48 rests entirely on the ability of the operator to bring the weapon on the target.
If you don't then even the mk 48 can miss.

Players need to learn to account for this new tactic. In other mods torpedoes had a larger acquisition cone, so you could fire in snapshot and be more or less sure of acquiring your prey.
Now its not so easy.
You need to take into account search depth, you need to take into account countermesures which have a real effect, you have to take into account maximum speed and turning radius etc...
And you have to STEER the weapon on the target.

If you don't steer the weapon on your prey the mod isn't really at fault is it ?

[sertore]

Сообщение от goldorak

@ sertore : One last thing about torpedoes :

Unless you are discussing wake homing torpedoes that are basically fire and forget, you only need care to fire them to intercept the wake of your target, there is no way for AI target ships to evade them; all other torpedoes, which means wire guided ones, such as the UGST and mk 48 when launched against human controlled units HAVE to be wireguided to the target.
You cannot expect to fire and forget and have the torpedo figure it all out.

Firing at close range, whether mk 48 or UGST the lethality is more or less the same.
At greater distances you cannot fire only in snapshot and expect to hit the target, moreso if the target is evading.
You need to steer these weapons onto the target.

The last mission Betasom played, had a player steering his mk 48 to hit the target.
The player that was hit was astounded to see the torped backtrace and hit him.
And he shouldn't be surprised.
The lethality of the UGST and Mk 48 rests entirely on the ability of the operator to bring the weapon on the target.
If you don't then even the mk 48 can miss.

Players need to learn to account for this new tactic. In other mods torpedoes had a larger acquisition cone, so you could fire in snapshot and be more or less sure of acquiring your prey.
Now its not so easy.
You need to take into account search depth, you need to take into account countermesures which have a real effect, you have to take into account maximum speed and turning radius etc...
And you have to STEER the weapon on the target.

If you don't steer the weapon on your prey the mod isn't really at fault is it ?

Dear Goldorak, I understand your comments, do not agree but I will go along with them.

About last Betasom mission, to which I personally attended, we had a great player piloting a Los Angeles FLT III sinking three trainers (with trainers I mean people that is teaching at Betasom Accademy how to play the game to the DW addicted , with really deep knowing of submarine warfare) on Akula II and Lada: never happened, especially at really close distance (< 5nm)!
The Los Angeles was able to simply evade lot of RU unit's torpedos, instead the RU units were catch by MK48 even with tidy use of CMs and evasion tactics: my feeling is that the RU players have to stay to steer continuously their weapons while the US ones can dedicate their attention to sonars research while their torpedo are working for them... the game is not balanced at all.

In any case, if you are thinking that everything is perfect and the MOD is complete as is, please discard my comments and fix just the sound issues of SSK.

I do not want to continue to annoying you, RA people and other visitors with an not useful discussion: I will not post any other comment about the matter if not requested.

Thanks again for support.

[whiskey111]

All Akulas have no option "promoted to link"

And something wrong is with AI surface: I turned on radar and found some ships from surface group. There were ships such as; Spruance, Ticonderoga, OHP. None of them attacked me.

[Castout]

I don't know if this has been brought up but I think I may have found a glitch on Akula II improved narrow band sonar station


If the player scan the cursor long enough left and right and keep doing that WHEN the center display is set to point South then the cursor would get stuck at some degrees. This is reproducable especially when selecting the hull and towed array.

[sertore]

Сообщение от Castout

I don't know if this has been brought up but I think I may have found a glitch on Akula II improved narrow band sonar station


If the player scan the cursor long enough left and right and keep doing that WHEN the center display is set to point South then the cursor would get stuck at some degrees. This is reproducable especially when selecting the hull and towed array.

I confirm we experienced the same issue, present just on Akula II Improved.

[sertore]

Сообщение от whiskey111

All Akulas have no option "promoted to link"

And something wrong is with AI surface: I turned on radar and found some ships from surface group. There were ships such as; Spruance, Ticonderoga, OHP. None of them attacked me.

In our test no problem with promotion to link, and AI units are really fast to attack: can you please post a mission to test?

[whiskey111]

This is link to my mission
http://www.mediafire.com/?gwfwyo3q2zk


And what about my two previous questions ? Any chances to be answered ?

[sertore]

Сообщение от whiskey111

This is link to my mission
http://www.mediafire.com/?gwfwyo3q2zk


And what about my two previous questions ? Any chances to be answered ?

Dear whiskey, the promotion to link and AI attack works fine for me both: the problem is the bad weather that degrade the acoustic condition and reduce the detecting range.

About promote to link you have to surface and raise the radio antenna: surfacing is necessary because the high waves continuosly blind your radio if not surfaced; as soon as you are surfaced and you are able to receive the links of your ally the promote to link option appears on unit menù on NavMap.

The same for AI attacking: try to cavitate, and the AI units at about 10nm will detect and attack you in less than 30 secs:



If you not cavitate the AI units could not detect and engage you, even with visual due to the really bad sea condition.

As final test, try to set environmetal conditions to sea state 1 and weather clear, and you will be attacked in less than 30 secs from the start of the mission due to increased range detection of AI units.

About other question I leave the points to RA people...

[CrazyIvan]

In mission with SSP such as Convergence ZONE - layer is located between 300 and 500 ft
In mission with SSP such as Surface DUCT - Layer is located between 400 and 1200 ft.

The mission demonstrates, as the transition UNDER a LAYER weakens a passive signal only partially, a signal from the display - Completely does not delete though even the player has left on 1000 or 1400 ft (MUCH BELOW than LAYER) - signal, all the same is present on the display.

Minesweeper, which is located in 8.5 miles more to the right side Sub of the player - signal vanishes at a leaving under a layer. His also vanishes active ping.

And that minesweeper which at the left side in 5 miles from the player - he remains on sonar - both in a passive and in active scan mode.
( Pay attention - speed at the ships identical, that is production of noise identical.But 8.5 miles of a distance - considerably are weakened by noise level which your sensor control [BB Sonar] reaches.)
At the moment of transition through a layer, easing a signal on BB Sonar will be visible. Also it is visible on a DEMON - as the strips of edges - will be little bit more thin there is some easing of a signal.

In general, it is possible to speak - that Layer it not a "steel board". Especially for short distances and loud Targets.

[whiskey111]

-Jaf-
1. I installed RA as it described in readme. Only RA, no any mods installed.
2. My os; win7 64
3. Nice to hear that range of this gun will be fixed.
4. One more thing: will be cool if AI units use their heavy guns too. Now I have impression that onlu human controlled units are using heavy guns.
5. Any chance that RA team will do some manuals for divers, sirena etc... ?

-sertore-
1. This is trange because Akula II or Victor is able to sent links.
2. I was talking about radar detection, not cavitating. I turned on it, discovered some surface targets and none of DD or OHP attacked me.

[Jaf]

Сообщение от whiskey111

I installed RA as it described in readme. Only RA, no any mods installed. My os; win7 64

RA has not been tested in win7.
Some people reported same bug in win7.

Сообщение от whiskey111

will be cool if AI units use their heavy guns too. Now I have impression that onlu human controlled units are using heavy guns.

AI units use their heavy guns too if the distance is allowed.

Сообщение от whiskey111

Any chance that RA team will do some manuals for divers, sirena etc... ?

As to sirena (and divers too) - see ..\Dangerous waters\Manual\RA_Weapon_Info_rev2.pdf page21
(you sub must be stoped before launch)

Сообщение от whiskey111

This is trange because Akula II or Victor is able to sent links.

Promotion to link work normally on all Akulas.
You must be on PD with extended radio mast.

Сообщение от whiskey111

I was talking about radar detection, not cavitating. I turned on it, discovered some surface targets and none of DD or OHP attacked me.

Surface units detect you radar emission, but they do not attack you because:
1) distance is too big for weapon use
2) due to bug in game engine new track do not transmitted to doctrine sometimes - try to reload mission
3) wait ~5min and you recieve birds :)

[whiskey111]

Сообщение от Jaf

Promotion to link work normally on all Akulas.
You must be on PD with extended radio mast.

I am on PD and radio mast is esxtended. But I can't promote any targets. I have noticed that only when Akula I is surfaced then I can do this. Other subs work correctly.
Sertore wrote that it is necessary to be surface to promoting any targets by data link. So something is not as has to be.

Сообщение от Jaf

Surface units detect you radar emission, but they do not attack you because:
1) distance is too big for weapon use
2) due to bug in game engine new track do not transmitted to doctrine sometimes - try to reload mission
3) wait ~5min and you recieve birds

Hmmm... No, it doesn't. It happened in mission http://www.mediafire.com/?gwfwyo3q2zk for Akula I. Maybe it is Win7 bug, maybe not.
Please check it and give me an answer.

[Jaf]

Сообщение от whiskey111

I am on PD and radio mast is esxtended. But I can't promote any targets.

I Confirm an incorrect value for the height of radio masts on Akula-I & Akula-I Imp.
PromoteToLink option appears only above 17m
Will be corrected.

[Jaf]

Сообщение от whiskey111

Hmmm... No, it doesn't. It happened in mission http://www.mediafire.com/?gwfwyo3q2zk for Akula I. Maybe it is Win7 bug, maybe not. Please check it and give me an answer.

The enemies at once detect the radar emission and after a while Kitty Hawk launches two Vikings, who are attacking me.

Important note: When creating a mission You MUST insert O.H.Perry*AI* (with MH-60R AI Helo) instead of O.H.Perry*User* (with MH-60R -PlayerCtrl-) if you do not use it as manned, otherwise disrupted helicopters work.
You must insert O.H.Perry*User* in mission ONLY if you will manage it.
All this concerned Udaloy*User* & Udaloy*AI* too.

Сообщение от whiskey111

I wanted to download Ra mod and install it again. Unfortunatelly I can't do this because download process doesn't want to start at all.

Try another browser (Opera etc.)
Or try this link:
http://dangerouswaters.pl/download/RaDWX_v1.1_new.rar

[whiskey111]

I wanted to download Ra mod and install it again. Unfortunatelly I can't do this because download process doesn't want to start at all. Any chance to upload it on mediafire or rapidshare ?

[sertore]

Сообщение от whiskey111

I wanted to download Ra mod and install it again. Unfortunatelly I can't do this because download process doesn't want to start at all. Any chance to upload it on mediafire or rapidshare ?

Download works fine for me: maybe you have to check your browser settings or internet connection options.

[whiskey111]

Thank you for alternative link. Unfortunately resinstalling Ra mod didn't help.

AI surface doesn't react of my sub radar.
Additionaly I found something new: this happened only for US subs. Radar antenna was broken in every attempt to extract it. I hope this is only Win7 bug.

What is the chance to make RA mod playable on Win7 ?

[Jaf]

Сообщение от whiskey111

Additionaly I found something new: this happened only for US subs. Radar antenna was broken in every attempt to extract it. I hope this is only Win7 bug. What is the chance to make RA mod playable on Win7 ?

This is not Win7 bug - this is inability to use the materiel :)
For successfull radar use you must go to radar depth (not to PD).
See "USNI Referense > Ownship Information" section for appropriate depth&speed for radar operation.

[goldorak]

Сообщение от Jaf

This is not Win7 bug - this is inability to use the materiel
For successfull radar use you must go to radar depth (not to PD).
See "USNI Referense > Ownship Information" section for appropriate depth&speed for radar operation.

Whiskey111, READ THE FREAKING MANUAL.