Red Rodgers  

Вернуться   Red Rodgers > Запасная полоса > S.C.S. Dangerous Waters

Ответ
 
Опции темы Опции просмотра
Старый 14-05-2010, 09:14   #841
sertore
Sergeant
 
Регистрация: Sep 2009
Адрес: Italy
Сообщений: 174
Thumbs up

You are totally right: please find here an example of what happened yesterday night in a polar mission.

Icebergs were flying over the surface, and also on the top of some units!

A Lada was also able to drill the submerged part of an iceberg, apparently without any mayor issue (just 24% of damage).

We really need the fixes you mentioned to be able to play a decent polar scenario!

Keep your good work up and thanks for efforts to you and your friends!
sertore вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 15-05-2010, 14:40   #842
CrazyIvan
Bugcatcher
 
Аватар для CrazyIvan
 
Регистрация: Nov 2008
Адрес: Russia Kursk City
Сообщений: 805
Exclamation

The interaction of submarines with ice keel is corrected.
Now submarines take damages. (Pic.1)

Is corrected bug when surfaced through ice a "Typhoon" SSBN could not launch SLBM Missiles. (Pic.2)

Other submarines are corrected also.

Surfaced "Los-Angeles Imp" now is capable launch missiles from VLS (TLAM; TASM) - if the ice thickness does not exceed 2 feet.

At thickness of 3 ft and more - the launch missiles becomes impossible.
Миниатюры
Нажмите на изображение для увеличения
Название: ICE_Keel.jpg
Просмотров: 310
Размер:	239.0 Кб
ID:	8492   Нажмите на изображение для увеличения
Название: Polar_Launch.jpg
Просмотров: 292
Размер:	227.2 Кб
ID:	8493  
CrazyIvan вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 15-05-2010, 20:55   #843
dd149
Sergeant
 
Регистрация: Jan 2009
Адрес: North France
Сообщений: 155
Superb job, fortunately we have people like you who can fix the mess of sonalysts.
dd149 вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 16-05-2010, 09:39   #844
fleet command CC
Leading Aircraftsman
 
Регистрация: Jun 2009
Сообщений: 29
Question Hello CrazyIvan

May I ask have you done any new update to the RA mod that are available to download?

I've been a way from this forum for some time now, and I just wonder what was going on with your mod.
fleet command CC вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 19-05-2010, 11:54   #845
Castout
Senior Aircraftsman
 
Регистрация: Nov 2008
Сообщений: 43
Still some time I guess.

I'm happy that they are still working on it because when it's done it's going to be sweet and less bug driven.
Castout вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 21-05-2010, 18:13   #846
Lau
Senior Aircraftsman
 
Аватар для Lau
 
Регистрация: Feb 2010
Сообщений: 53
Goldorak / CrazyIvan

What are the chances that you modify some of the parameters of Rubis and Amethyste before new release of the mod.

With new release of RAmod French MilleSabord team will be organizing international meetings and it will be nice to be able to play with Amethyste and Rubis during does games.

The idea will be for Amethyste to have similar caracteristics to Los Angeles flt II + blackshark torp as you did for the Italian team Betasom.

Rubis can stay as it stands, this way it makes two different sub, one good and one average for different type of games.

Please

We are all really looking forward for the next release and already having so much fun with v1.1

Best regards,

Lau
Lau вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 21-05-2010, 20:22   #847
goldorak
Sergeant
 
Регистрация: Dec 2008
Сообщений: 250
Wink

Hi Lau,

First let me say that I'm in no way directly connected to the modders and what they may or may not include in the mod. I'm a simple player, like the rest of you guys.

Now as far as your criticism of not including the Black Shark abord the Rubis class. I have to say that I agree with the modders to not include it, as in real life these subs just don't carry it. They are old generation subs, and are being phased out for more modern AIP subs and nuclear subs. New models that will carry the Black Shark. Unfortunately for whatever reason the modders decided to not included a new generation playable french sub in the mod.

If the modders start adding arbitrary weapons to platforms disregarding completely realism, all that the mod has strived for is being thrown out the window. Whats to stop someone asking to include I don't know shkvals aboard the sturgeons just because they would make formidable close range weapons ?

The Rubis are not the equivalent of 688 flt III or Virginias or Seawolves. I don't even think they are the equivalent of new generation AIP subs such as the Type 212. Rubis are old technology, decades old technology this is the real truth.

So what to do with them ? Either design missions around the capabilities of the Rubis class, as you would design a mission around the capabilities of a Kilo class if you were to use that in a mission. But no one designs a mission with a Kilo that goes against a Seawolf and expects the Kilo to havbe the upperhand. It can happen if you have a very skilled player on the Kilo and an incompetent on the Seawolf. But besides this, the capabilites of the 2 platforms are so different that you can't possibily design a versus mission with a Kilo going against a Seawolf and expect "equal performance". Its just not going to happen.

If you want to use the Rubis in multiplayer, design the mission around subs that have the same capabilities more or less. That means putting Rubis together with Collins, Harushios and Kilos. But asking to include the Black Shark just so it can compete with the big guys is wrong.

This puts obviously a strain on the mission designers that have to know the ins and outs of the different platforms. Just designing a mission and throwing in arbitrary playable platforms may actually hurt the mission because of the great difference in capability each of these platforms is capable of.

I think we should pressure the modders (maybe sending them a nice box of bordeaux wine) to put a modern playable french sub (Suffren class maybe ? ).
goldorak вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 21-05-2010, 21:58   #848
Lau
Senior Aircraftsman
 
Аватар для Lau
 
Регистрация: Feb 2010
Сообщений: 53
I know and agree with all you are saying, but as the game stands we have no chance of playing often with Rubis or Amethyste, which is a shame as they are so nicely modeled in 3D and other aspects. I have actually strugled to convince players to use other platforms than Seawolf and Akula II improved in our next tournament MS team vs DW.pl team and we will use the Rubis and Amethyste. But lets face it players around the world like playing with LOS Flt III and modern subs, we will not have many opportunities to include Rubis and Amethyste and really represent France in international tournaments, so yes we really need a modern SSN in the French side with torpedoes that can give us a chance to compete. Else you will always have the classical Russian vs US scenarios... So yes RA moders give us the tools to represent our French flag during important events

Follows the list of platforms for this event (I selected Rubis for my self knowing that other french players will avoid selecting weak platforms, even the Amethyste has not been selected, surely because of the F17 mod 2 torp as the other performances are ok) So we really have a problem.

BLUFOR team (french speaking)

OHP -Nemo "MS"
Los Angeles Flt I - Alex "MS"
Sturgeon - Senegolois "MS"
Amethyste -?
Rubis "Casabianca" - Lau


OPFOR team (english speaking)

Udaloy - Grindler
Akula I -Achachtel
Victor III - Dobedoo
Victor II - U47 "MS"
Alfa -guybrush
Lada -Motrius22 "MS"
Kilo normal -Ronipl


The french community is very active and playing weekely, we are even looking forward to challenge the moders of the RAmod on board french submarines, if I say this they will give us platforms with poor capabilities

The reason I wrote your name in the my last post is that I know you know that we need this, so please help us getting our toy

We can help with documentation and other informations as we have enlisted people as well as on the 3D modeling

Before you say so, I know that we will be able to do this ourselves as the data base will be open. However having it already in the official release, will guarantee that all the navyes in the world have the same data base, ready to play!

Kind regards,

Lau
Lau вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 21-05-2010, 22:06   #849
dd149
Sergeant
 
Регистрация: Jan 2009
Адрес: North France
Сообщений: 155
A new 3d model of SSBN le Triomphant is under preparation and it might be possible to have it playable. As for the new French SSNs, characteristics are not yet known accurately besides DCNS advertising brochures and it would make them fictional, which is not what the game is supposed to be about.
The actual Rubis and Amethyste are noisy due to their small size.
dd149 вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 22-05-2010, 16:43   #850
Lau
Senior Aircraftsman
 
Аватар для Lau
 
Регистрация: Feb 2010
Сообщений: 53
to DD149 : Yes I agree, my point is about game play. Red October isnt real too

You can see it during games, none of the french players is willing to spend a night in a Rubis or Amethyste (I do) because of their poor capabilities, they simply act as torpedoes magnets and can only fire when is too late. I feel it is a shame to have modeled these two subs so beatifully and that no one uses them. It would therefore really be nice to have a modern submarine for our international challenges, not necessary matching Seawolf, but something in between Virginia and Trafalgar with blacksharks.

The easiest solution to this problem will be to simply improve Amethyste capabilities, upgrade it to something close to Los Angeles Flt I + real torpedoes like blackshark so we can play, just for game play purposes.

The fact is that these submarines are not in war against each other in real life, that we do not exactly know their real capabilities as it is top secret, however it will be very usefull to be able to play with them, just for game play purpose and of curse, for the fun of playing with french fleet platforms.
Lau вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 22-05-2010, 18:25   #851
CrazyIvan
Bugcatcher
 
Аватар для CrazyIvan
 
Регистрация: Nov 2008
Адрес: Russia Kursk City
Сообщений: 805
@ Lau

Really your commanders will refuse performance of the tasks on existing submarines?

"I refuse to carry out the task - because my submarine too noisy!
And the torpedos have not a long range... "

Battle by that weapon which is present.

PS: I will consult with RA by the members of a team - we shall be possible to do "Suffren" SSN a class.

However it will increase time of an output of addition by some time.

Последний раз редактировалось CrazyIvan; 22-05-2010 в 19:18.
CrazyIvan вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 22-05-2010, 20:37   #852
dyshman
Senior Aircraftsman
 
Регистрация: May 2007
Адрес: minsk, Belarus
Сообщений: 36
the appetite comes with eating, as i see, doesn't it?
lets imagine all your dreams, French comrades! adding non existing sub to game is wonderful idea. real capabilities for game-play, at your disposal! . try to write gamers petition to your president, to build suffren-class faster!
dyshman вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 22-05-2010, 21:54   #853
goldorak
Sergeant
 
Регистрация: Dec 2008
Сообщений: 250
Цитата:
Сообщение от dyshman Посмотреть сообщение
the appetite comes with eating, as i see, doesn't it?
lets imagine all your dreams, French comrades! adding non existing sub to game is wonderful idea. real capabilities for game-play, at your disposal! . try to write gamers petition to your president, to build suffren-class faster!

Well to be honest you can't really blame us.
Your mod is a jewel, to desire modern playable units is understandable.

If adding a new playable starting from zero takes to much time, why don't you use the already present Triomphant model and transform that to a playable. There are already several playable SSBNs in the game (Ohio, Typhoon) so adding a french one wouldn't be a stretch. Although in this case the problem of modern torpedoes won't be fixed, since the Triomphant carries F17 torpedoes and not Black Shark ones.
goldorak вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 22-05-2010, 23:05   #854
dyshman
Senior Aircraftsman
 
Регистрация: May 2007
Адрес: minsk, Belarus
Сообщений: 36
well, interesting. i'm not blame you personally, but why should we(i mean our players community) have to much unused units? how many missions were created for playable victors or harushio&collins? lets create many interesting missions and campaigns for new units. it will be best way to increase playability. simple duels is not interesting, i think.
dyshman вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 22-05-2010, 23:17   #855
CrazyIvan
Bugcatcher
 
Аватар для CrazyIvan
 
Регистрация: Nov 2008
Адрес: Russia Kursk City
Сообщений: 805
As - DW the completed stage in development of games from SCS (I think everyone understand - that further deploying of games from SCS to expect does not cost).
Therefore we can add "Suffren" SSN Class.
There can be in 2016 it will in french fleet.?

However - will not be more naval sim from SCS or from -RA- modders to 2016 y.

We can place it (Suffren)- for the future (Survivability) of this addition.
CrazyIvan вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 22-05-2010, 23:49   #856
goldorak
Sergeant
 
Регистрация: Dec 2008
Сообщений: 250
Talking

Цитата:
Сообщение от dyshman Посмотреть сообщение
well, interesting. i'm not blame you personally, but why should we(i mean our players community) have to much unused units? how many missions were created for playable victors or harushio&collins? lets create many interesting missions and campaigns for new units. it will be best way to increase playability. simple duels is not interesting, i think.
There is nothing wrong in desiring new units. Reality on the other hand is a totally different issue. I know full well that compromises have to be made, and that not every navy in the world is going to be represented in the game.
It is also natural that most playable units are russian and americans. The first because well the mod is made by russians, and the american units well because their navy is quite important world wide. The other navies are minor navies, yes even the british and french ones.
Personally I don't have a problem if a new french sub is not included. As I said the mod is great because we have tens and tens of units to choose from.
Most of them have different capabilites and it is NOT A FAILURE of the modders if certain players always want to use the same 1-2 units. Adaptability is king, we in Betasom have long learned to design varied missions. Missions that employ many different units, missions that take place in the open sea (and therefore will have certain types of units), and missions that take place near coastal waters (and so SSK types of units are more preponderant). Players have to overcome shall I say their dependance on the latest and shiniest units to also try classical SSK's. Gameplay is different and nonetheless challenging.
You can design missions where SSKs go against one another, or where they operate together with surface or air units etc... As I said the problem is not with the mod, the problem is with certain players and how to design missions that cater to certain class of units. Its a learning experience thats all.

All this said, and I enjoy using all the subs in the mod, the more playables we have the nicier it is.
goldorak вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 23-05-2010, 00:12   #857
goldorak
Sergeant
 
Регистрация: Dec 2008
Сообщений: 250
Question

Цитата:
Сообщение от CrazyIvan Посмотреть сообщение
As - DW the completed stage in development of games from SCS (I think everyone understand - that further deploying of games from SCS to expect does not cost).
Therefore we can add "Suffren" SSN Class.
There can be in 2016 it will in french fleet.?

However - will not be more naval sim from SCS or from -RA- modders to 2016 y.

We can place it (Suffren)- for the future (Survivability) of this addition.
Well CrazyIvan, if putting a sub in the game that is still in the planning stages and is not in operational service constitues a problem (and I can see why), why don't you consider instead the Scorpene class ?
These are still french designed and built modern AIP subs (they are more or less the equivalent of the Type 212).
They already are operational in several navies (chilean, brazilean, indian and royal maleysian navies). And these subs carry the Black Shark, at least the chilean ones do (and maybe the brazilean ones althought on this I'm not sure).

Link : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpene

For realism sake I'd propose to include in DW the Scorpene (although they are not in service in the french navy) but we can stretch a little and say yes ? for gameplay purposes ?
goldorak вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 23-05-2010, 03:20   #858
MSNemo
Leading Aircraftsman
 
Регистрация: May 2010
Сообщений: 19
Цитата:
Сообщение от goldorak Посмотреть сообщение
Hi Lau,
Rubis are old technology, decades old technology this is the real truth.
Hi, goldorak it's nemo from MS-team.

How are you?

Sorry but i can not agree with this...
Each submarine goes in "IPER"...you really think that in 20 years we have not improved our submarines while he was in drydock..??

Obviously a Améthyste is not equal to a virginia or seawolf, but for the noise he was equal to an 688flt II.
Currently we are install the latest sonar suite on the Améthyste class for tracking the AIP submarine So I think we just consider that the capacity will be higher than that people think.
MSNemo вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 23-05-2010, 03:47   #859
Lau
Senior Aircraftsman
 
Аватар для Lau
 
Регистрация: Feb 2010
Сообщений: 53
Цитата:
Сообщение от CrazyIvan Посмотреть сообщение
@ Lau

Really your commanders will refuse performance of the tasks on existing submarines?

"I refuse to carry out the task - because my submarine too noisy!
And the torpedos have not a long range... "

Battle by that weapon which is present.

PS: I will consult with RA by the members of a team - we shall be possible to do "Suffren" SSN a class.

However it will increase time of an output of addition by some time.
Цитата:
Сообщение от CrazyIvan Посмотреть сообщение
As - DW the completed stage in development of games from SCS (I think everyone understand - that further deploying of games from SCS to expect does not cost).
Therefore we can add "Suffren" SSN Class.
There can be in 2016 it will in french fleet.?

However - will not be more naval sim from SCS or from -RA- modders to 2016 y.

We can place it (Suffren)- for the future (Survivability) of this addition.
Thank you CrazyIvan for considering our point of view and yes you are right in saying that after next release we are not sure when will be the next one.

As I said Red October is in the mod for game play, adding a Suffren will be the same, just for game play. Suffren will be equiped with torps inspired by the blacksharks, we can provide you with more info on this topic. What is important is game play. I suppose RAmoders added french submarines for people to use them, well it will be a pleasure and we already do to test them in every mission, we really talk a lot about them and our senior members, members that are enlisted in these units think that not all parameters are realistic because based on wikipedia info which must of the time gives same info for must submarines.

In order to use the platforms you created for us (thank you for this) we need them to have some game play capabilities.

In the french team we all agree that Amethyste should be close to Los Angeles Flt II with regards to noise radiation and close to Los Flt III with regards to sonar performances. I am sorry but these submarines have proven very efficient in OTAN exercices which gives indication that they are not that bad. F17 mod 2 torps, they are not performant and therefore hard to use in game. But if it is not realistic to change them, then dont do it, but then please provide us with a Suffren + FTL torps (derived from Blackshark) + Exocet SM39 + SCALP cruise missile + Mines

As said by Goldorak, we already use Amethyste and Rubis in several scenarios against Victor I, II and other SSK. vs Victor III it already becomes very challenging with F17 mod 2 torps.

To Goldorak, thank you for your input, but we do not need an other Agosta hull (Scorpene), what we need is a submarine capable of playing vs Los Angeles, Trafalgar, Virginia, Seawolf, Akula II improved. Without proper torpedoes it will never work on the game play side.

Thank you

Lau

Suffren info :
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classe_Suffren
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCALP_(missile)

Последний раз редактировалось Lau; 23-05-2010 в 05:34.
Lau вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Старый 23-05-2010, 04:30   #860
Lau
Senior Aircraftsman
 
Аватар для Lau
 
Регистрация: Feb 2010
Сообщений: 53
F17 mod 2 torpedoes/Blackshark and FTL
Please do not forget that the french are part of the developping process with the Italians of the extraordinary Blackshark. As soon as the Suffren class is ready they will be equiped with FTL, which is simply a variant based on the Blackshark, I mean it can not be worst. Triomphant and Suffren will be equiped with these weapons for sure it is only a matter of time.

Time?
Yes the world is in crisis and budgets are cut every year we all know this. Lets not sacrifice game play for delays with incorporation of a technology that everyone knows the french navy posses.

F17 mod 2 /Blackshark and FTL info:
http://www.meretmarine.com/article.cfm?id=106270
Lau вне форума   Ответить с цитированием
Ответ


Здесь присутствуют: 1 (пользователей: 0 , гостей: 1)
 
Опции темы
Опции просмотра

Ваши права в разделе
Вы не можете создавать новые темы
Вы не можете отвечать в темах
Вы не можете прикреплять вложения
Вы не можете редактировать свои сообщения

BB коды Вкл.
Смайлы Вкл.
[IMG] код Вкл.
HTML код Выкл.

Быстрый переход


Часовой пояс GMT +4, время: 03:34.


Red Rodgers official site. Powered by TraFFa. ©2000 - 2018, Red Rodgers
vBulletin Version 3.8.11. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Перевод: zCarot