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Старый 30-09-2009, 15:04   #301
dasOoops
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Units DW RA technical info for players

Good time of day!

If interesting, in attachments - technical info for all units in DW RA, sonars frequensy and list of abbreviatings of US Navy. Tech info and sonars freqs - directly from database of last version RA. List of abbreviating prepared for inserting to usnidata.*
Вложения
Тип файла: zip db_units_info.zip (56.8 Кб, 843 просмотров)
Тип файла: zip db_act_sonar_list.zip (3.7 Кб, 809 просмотров)
Тип файла: zip classif.zip (159.1 Кб, 600 просмотров)
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Старый 30-09-2009, 17:09   #302
suBB
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Сообщение от dasOoops Посмотреть сообщение
Good time of day!

If interesting, in attachments - technical info for all units in DW RA, sonars frequensy and list of abbreviatings of US Navy. Tech info and sonars freqs - directly from database of last version RA. List of abbreviating prepared for inserting to usnidata.*
Thank you for the resources.

However there is a serious issue of playability in the RA mod, DWX 1.00

The issue is the damage values of torpedoes carried by all surface and air platforms make the FFG / Udaloy / MH-60 / Helix / P3 Orion / TU-142 Bear ineffective and useless for ASW operations. For this reason any custom scenario that involves use of these platforms cannot be created.

The DW community would like to know, what is the RA mod team going to do to resolve this issue of playability??

Please do not ignore this post and inform the community of what is going to be done to resolve this issue.

Thank you
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Старый 30-09-2009, 17:59   #303
CrazyIvan
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Сообщение от suBB Посмотреть сообщение
Thank you for the resources.

However there is a serious issue of playability in the RA mod, DWX 1.00

The issue is the damage values of torpedoes carried by all surface and air platforms make the FFG / Udaloy / MH-60 / Helix / P3 Orion / TU-142 Bear ineffective and useless for ASW operations. For this reason any custom scenario that involves use of these platforms cannot be created.

The DW community would like to know, what is the RA mod team going to do to resolve this issue of playability??

Please do not ignore this post and inform the community of what is going to be done to resolve this issue.

Thank you

Ok, we shall reconsider system of damages
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Старый 30-09-2009, 18:01   #304
suBB
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Ok, we shall reconsider system of damages
Thank you for your level of professionalism and great work!!!

Subb
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Старый 30-09-2009, 20:12   #305
MR.Wood
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I know there has been lots of complants about the perrys and p3s and mh60s
but do rember one thing the torpedos they all carry are light weight and never were expected to kill with one shot these weapons are all small warheads to save weights. As for the russian asw weapons i'm far from an expert but should be the same thing
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Старый 30-09-2009, 20:55   #306
goldorak
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Ok, we shall reconsider system of damages

CrazyIvan its not necessary to overhaul the whole damage system.
Normal torpedos and subrocs are ok.
The only imblance is with air dropped torpedos (from helix, mh-60r, p-3 or bear). With the current system in place, those playing mostly on helicopters will only have 3 torpedos available, and most of the time will find themselves unable to sink a single sub because with 40% damage per torpedo you will need all 3 to hit the sub. And this realistically just won't happen. A simple update to 50% damage per torpedo should fix the problem.
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Старый 30-09-2009, 21:00   #307
goldorak
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I know there has been lots of complants about the perrys and p3s and mh60s
but do rember one thing the torpedos they all carry are light weight and never were expected to kill with one shot these weapons are all small warheads to save weights. As for the russian asw weapons i'm far from an expert but should be the same thing


Mr.Wood please understand nobody is advocating 1 shot = 1 kill for LWT torpedos.
As the situation is now, you need 3 LW torpedos to basically sink a sub and this makes playing on air units, mostly helicopters completely useless since they carry only 3 LWT, and with how effective countermeasures are in RA, well its impossibile most of the time to score 3 direct hits. Miss one, and your helo is irrelevant.
This is a gameplay/balance issue.
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Старый 30-09-2009, 21:05   #308
suBB
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CrazyIvan its not necessary to overhaul the whole damage system.
Normal torpedos and subrocs are ok.
The only imblance is with air dropped torpedos (from helix, mh-60r, p-3 or bear). With the current system in place, those playing mostly on helicopters will only have 3 torpedos available, and most of the time will find themselves unable to sink a single sub because with 40% damage per torpedo you will need all 3 to hit the sub. And this realistically just won't happen. A simple update to 50% damage per torpedo should fix the problem.
don't forget the FFG, as i recall they use the same ordinance as the helos and P3 for torpedoes.

If there is common ordinance(torpedoes) between the udaloy, helix & bear, don't forget those as well..

guess I'll confirm this really quick..
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Старый 30-09-2009, 21:23   #309
suBB
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don't forget the FFG, as i recall they use the same ordinance as the helos and P3 for torpedoes.

If there is common ordinance(torpedoes) between the udaloy, helix & bear, don't forget those as well..

guess I'll confirm this really quick..
looks like mk50 and mk54 are common ordinance between mh60 / p3 / OHP FFG

Udaloy has heavyweight torpedoes so he should be fine..

there aren't any common air dropped ordinances between the bear and helix but still they need to be investigated..
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Старый 01-10-2009, 03:51   #310
Fearless
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I've dowloaded the zip files. How do I get the info into a readable format?
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Старый 01-10-2009, 14:24   #311
CrazyIvan
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Arrow

Some Updates For Coming Patch.

Russian platforms - in meters world system measure.
Миниатюры
Нажмите на изображение для увеличения
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ID:	8109   Нажмите на изображение для увеличения
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ID:	8110  
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Старый 01-10-2009, 14:44   #312
dasOoops
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Сообщение от Fearless Посмотреть сообщение
I've dowloaded the zip files. How do I get the info into a readable format?
This about dw_units_info.zip, dw_act_sonar_list.zip, classif.zip files?
What "readable format" can you want? Tell me more, please.
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Старый 02-10-2009, 00:16   #313
fitzcarraldo
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The zips are for the USN Reference of the DW? How to include those archives in the sim?

Or are they an external reference?

Thanks...

Fitzcarraldo
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Старый 02-10-2009, 03:44   #314
Fearless
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This about dw_units_info.zip, dw_act_sonar_list.zip, classif.zip files?
What "readable format" can you want? Tell me more, please.

Basically what Fitzcarraldo is asking also.
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Старый 02-10-2009, 03:49   #315
kpv1974
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Some Updates For Coming Patch.

Russian platforms - in meters world system measure.
Класс!!!
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Старый 02-10-2009, 03:53   #316
Fearless
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Ok, we shall reconsider system of damages
Excellent but not too powerful though. My sub got blown up when the 2nd torp hit.
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Старый 02-10-2009, 04:28   #317
CrazyIvan
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Сообщение от MR.Wood Посмотреть сообщение
I know there has been lots of complants about the perrys and p3s and mh60s
but do rember one thing the torpedos they all carry are light weight and never were expected to kill with one shot these weapons are all small warheads to save weights. As for the russian asw weapons i'm far from an expert but should be the same thing
Concerning torpedoes you are not right - for example Мк 46 has of weight of explosive substance - 45 kg. APR-2 has of weight of an explosive of 78 kg. It is 73 % of a difference

How it is possible at such difference in weight - to equalize these torpedoes on value of damages?

Further we shall consider submarines.

The American sub 688 projects – has three compartments.
The easy hull atop of strong - is not present. They are present only at places of connection of compartments.

Russian Victor the class - has the easy hull atop of the strong hull. In space between these hulls there is a various equipment - ballast tanks and other.

Has 9 compartments - and saves flotability at COMPLETELY flooded one by a compartment and partially flooded adjacent compartment.

Proceeding from written above - it will be possible to compare what damages to have these subs.
688 - flooding third of volume of the hull - will call inevitable destruction of a sub.

Victor the class - at flooding one compartment - remains on action. The equipment in space between hulls - reduces percent of damages.

I think that hit of one easy torpedo in 688 inevitably kill her.
Victor (or any another sub with a plenty of compartments) - can survive.

If so will be in game - probably will be by dissatisfied such situation of things ?
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Старый 02-10-2009, 06:57   #318
suBB
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How it is possible at such difference in weight - to equalize these torpedoes on value of damages?

Further we shall consider submarines.

The American sub 688 projects – has three compartments.
The easy hull atop of strong - is not present. They are present only at places of connection of compartments.

Russian Victor the class - has the easy hull atop of the strong hull. In space between these hulls there is a various equipment - ballast tanks and other.

Has 9 compartments - and saves flotability at COMPLETELY flooded one by a compartment and partially flooded adjacent compartment.

Proceeding from written above - it will be possible to compare what damages to have these subs.
688 - flooding third of volume of the hull - will call inevitable destruction of a sub.

Victor the class - at flooding one compartment - remains on action. The equipment in space between hulls - reduces percent of damages.

I think that hit of one easy torpedo in 688 inevitably kill her.
Victor (or any another sub with a plenty of compartments) - can survive.

If so will be in game - probably will be by dissatisfied such situation of things ?
Goodness CrazyIvan, I never would have imagined the level of detail(realism) you guys are putting into this mod!!! It’s fantastic!!! BTW how do you say fantastic in Russian?? I never would of considered hull compartments and infrastructure(hull integrity)

Anyways, this logic makes perfect sense to me. But please help me understand.. is the victor III a 1st generation sub, and the Akula classes that follow are later generations and improvements of the victor III all the way up to the ak2 improved hull???

Is this also the logic behind why the mk50 and mk54 appear to be ineffective against an AK2 improved?? I have not tried the APR-2 vs 688 yet, but I think goldorak has more information on that..

I’m in favor of your logic and the level of realism, but I think the main concern should be playability and effectiveness. If can find a balance, that’s great. But without playability and effectiveness, it would be hard to create scenarios of quality and for the player(s) to experience a sense of fulfillment, especially in objective style MP.

Thank you sir for an excellent mod!!!
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Старый 02-10-2009, 07:06   #319
Fearless
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An excellent mod indeed. I like the logic and level of realism. What result would it have if for argument sake one compared a direct hit on a nuclear sub and on a diesel/electric sub?
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Старый 02-10-2009, 10:47   #320
goldorak
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Goodness CrazyIvan, I never would have imagined the level of detail(realism) you guys are putting into this mod!!! It’s fantastic!!! BTW how do you say fantastic in Russian?? I never would of considered hull compartments and infrastructure(hull integrity)

Anyways, this logic makes perfect sense to me. But please help me understand.. is the victor III a 1st generation sub, and the Akula classes that follow are later generations and improvements of the victor III all the way up to the ak2 improved hull???

Is this also the logic behind why the mk50 and mk54 appear to be ineffective against an AK2 improved?? I have not tried the APR-2 vs 688 yet, but I think goldorak has more information on that..

I’m in favor of your logic and the level of realism, but I think the main concern should be playability and effectiveness. If can find a balance, that’s great. But without playability and effectiveness, it would be hard to create scenarios of quality and for the player(s) to experience a sense of fulfillment, especially in objective style MP.

Thank you sir for an excellent mod!!!

I agree with everything suBB has said. This level of realism is just mind boggling. You won't see me dispute "the damage" model on a realism basis.
But please consider a compromise, just for gameplay's sake.
A middle line where players can use mh-60r helicopters for ASW operations. Otherwise we might as well eliminate them (asnd the frigate) from the mod.

And this brings me to a second point : CrazyIvan and RA modders please please consider releasing a README with all the changes and specifics about what the new radar model is, the damage model (nobody had any idea you guys had modeled damages considering "the reserve buonancy" of american and russian subs".). This kind of knowledge has to be published
This will also facilitate comunication between players and RA modders. Because up to now, many people just assume that RA mimics Alfa Tau or Lwami and when things don't correspond they think the mod is broken or simply does funky things behind their backs.
If these guys could just see the why and how of things, many critics would be silenced.
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